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And then he put out his hand, so I put out my hand and I went to shake it. " And at that moment, I knew something was terribly wrong. As one of his top students, when in fact during that time, he really was becoming more of my student. Swinggcat: Well, his identity is already out there now, so it doesn't matter.And he pulled me into him and then he spilled coffee all over me and said "Ah! He started incorporating many, you know, many of my ideas into his videos, into what he kind-of dubbed the "new model" of seduction. Now, as I discovered later on, I'm gonna sort-of fast forward here, I became a big celeb after that, Ross built me up, I started becoming a star at his seminars, you know, it's kind-of like a "Rocky" thing - rise to the top.Not fully controlling, but it was my first taste of what it was like to control a social interaction.And I think for those reasons, I did very well with his material.And we met up, and I sort of remember when I met up I showed up late, because that's my trademark, I'm notoriously late. Thundercat: So you had his stamp of approval at that point?And I showed up about an hour late at Boarders, because that's where I'm supposed to meet them, and no one was there. IN10SE came up to me and he's like "Swinggcat, the guru is very mad at you." And so I thought this was a joke, or whatever, so we walked over to Barnes and Noble, which is where the others were now waiting, and Ross gave me this dirty look. Swinggcat: I had his stamp of approval, and at that point, he started building me up on the list as being this kind-of "super" SSer.Thundercat: But let's start talking about the point where you started coming into your own, away from SS, where you got into kind-of your own model of seduction, really. I was very active in college with the Northern California Seduction Lair, also known as the EBSS list -- East Bay Speed Seduction List -- and so when I came down here, I gathered a bunch of guys together and we all met at 3rd street promenade in Santa Monica, and I was talking about these different seduction techniques I used.

And the guys that were present were IN10SE, my good friend Merovingian, and Ross. kind-of in the periphery of my hearing, I hear Ross going "Thank God! And in that moment he realized that there was someone that could actually make his stuff work.

And Ross met me, and I think when he first met me he was a bit surprised because I looked normal. in terms of timeframe I think this was 2001, that's when I first started hanging out with Ross. I don't consider myself on par with people like Steve Piccus, or Mike Du Bay, but I'm pretty good and I can put these girls into trances.

You know, I had both eyeballs and I wasn't missing any teeth. How it started that Ross Jeffries took notice of me is, when I moved down to LA from college, I had kind-of taken over the Southern California Seduction Lair.

They were very intrigued and one of the guys there, I think he goes by the handle Al Fun Lover, challenged me to do it on this girl walking by.

And so, basically within 5 minutes of meeting her, I put her into a trance, was fondling her breasts, and making out with her.

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